Ye Shiwen 7th in 4:50 In 400IM At China Trials; Doping Review Cases An & Wang Swim On

Ye Shiwen by Photo: Patrick B. Kraemer
Ye Shiwen by Photo: Patrick B. Kraemer

Ye Shiwen, who stormed to controversial Olympic victories over 200m and 400m medley at 16 years of age in London 2012, is unlikely to defend her long medley crown in Rio: on 4:44 in heats and 4:50.74 for seventh place in the final on the first day of Chinese Championships and Olympic trials in Forshan, the world record holder was far from the selection zone

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Comments

Ger

She’s (Ye) best part of a length of the pool off her London time. That’s incredible. I wonder what her problem was.

aswimfan

I kept saying to give Ye the benefit of the doubt.
But this 4:50 is ridiculous no matter what injuries she’s had.

Stephanie rice had multiple shoulder injuries and she still was able to swim 4:33 after surgeries.

I’m now open to alternative explanations.

And about Chinese Olympics selection, there’s no such thing as Olympics trials. It is all up to their selectors. I remember Zige etc was able to swim in London despite not finishing top two in their Olympics “trials”.

commonwombat

Sorry, ASF but the only time Rice was sub 4.33 post Beijing was in Rome during the “suits” year.

HO JIAWEI

The winner of 400FR is Qiu Ziao instead of Li Zhuhao…

Craig Lord

Thanks Ho – most names straightforward – that one wasn’t 🙂

Ron Turner

A few of China’s top female swimmers from the past few years definitely look a bit heavier here, can’t explain why but they are def pulling more weight through the water. Ye Shewin looked as though she was struggling the entire race…

aswimfan

Commonwombat,

I didn’t say sub 4:33, I said swim 4:33, which she did at the 2012 trials which was only few months after her latest surgery.

Charles wang

Times reported:British doctor claims he doped 150 sports stars

clive rushton

I too was a ‘let’s hold off ‘ commentator after Ye Shiwen’s London, mainly because her technique on her last 100 (underwater footage) was simply outstanding. Her subsequent demise indicates the outside factors which everyone else identified.

Yozhik

There are no observations and sudden surprises. The flowing are Ye’s time since WC.
4:42.96 – August 2015
4:45.80 – February 2016
4:50.74 – April 2016
It is possible that some other explanation exist different from mentioned above.

Yozhik

* aberrations

Kim Simonsen

Well, then Hosszu don’t have to swim a sub 59 freestyle leg to take gold in Rio 🙂

Craig Lord

Mentioned in this piece, Charles (and not swimming, as noted):
http://www.swimvortex.com/no-sun-wang-under-cloud-of-clenbuterol-positive-at-olympic-trials-how-now-china/

beachmouse

Ye’s freestyle in Rio seemed to rely on a really extreme strength/weight ratio. Girls can get away with that for a year or two after the final puberty growth spurt but once those kind of swimmers start trying to fight ‘sideways’ normal physical development, it gets ugly. (See many a teenage breaststroke phenom who peaks ar 15-16 and is out of the sport by legal adulthood.)

I’ve seen a lot of criticism of how she’s ‘gotten fat’ since London when the truth is likely that the body of a 20 year old is just going to be more filled out than that of a 15 year old and to expect her to be frozen in time in that regard is unrealistic.

Craig Lord

It will be a different race, for sure, but the last 100m will still be significant Kim …

Craig Lord

power to weight ratios, angles of buoyancy and so forth all relevant, beachmouse, to going off the boil but (4:28 to 4:50 a long long way) the 58.6 speaks to others issues, I’m afraid. There is simply no rational explanation for Ye’s finishing speed relative to her strengths on freestyle and in medley endurance at the time – it was off her chart and off the chart full stop. And what of all that training Down Under that was supposed to be relevant to this swimmer… are there coaching explanations for this big fall away from form (even 4:44 to 4:50 heats to finals at nationals is a sizeable slump) – it will be interesting to hear what the coach who called all asking pertinent questions in 2012 “ignorant” has to say about the curve of this swimmer’s career.

beachmouse

Pressure to ‘stay slim’ can often lead to health issues and an increase in injuries. If you aren’t eating well enough to keep bones and tendons able to repair themselves, heavy exercise is often going to take its toll.

I tend to be on the suspicious side regarding her 2012 performances, but it takes hard work and good health even with heavy pharma to get to a world podium and not just a couple pills and a bit of splashing around, and there seems to be more with her going on and off the rails in recent years than medication management,

Wez

Aside from Ye’s performance, I think we are seriously overlooking the breaststroke performance.

China has now got a superb 4×100 medley.
Xu, Wang, Li, Ning. That team is pretty fantastic on paper. The only difference would be Phelps on fly to really separate them.

China, on paper, has a really realistic chance of winning the 4×100.

Kim Simonsen

Correct, if hosszu wants to break the World Record 🙂

Craig Lord

And to do that will need a blistering start – and therein rests the result in a balance that offers chances to others… as the season will yet show, Kim 🙂

Craig Lord

Wez, Wang* may not make it: his case is being reviewed – hard to imagine that China will be allowed to get away with a warning on clenbuterol – we shall see. It would clearly be a travesty if he gets to race at the O Games as a swimmer less than a year beyond a positive test for a substance in a high category of offence.

keno224

Whatever happened to Yun Hao he got 4th at the last olympics as 16 year old never heard from him since.

Kim Simonsen

I don’t see any other than Hosszu who can go a sub 4:30 in the 400 IM, furthermore the event is on the first day which means Hosszu is rested 🙂 Belmont, Dirado, and Miley will have to battle for silver and bronze, maybe Günez (the young turk of Ukrainian origin) can get into the mix?

Wez

Craig, stranger things have happened. Although there was another sub 60 in the field as well.
I dont think china’s team has been this strong leading up to an OG.

Either way, it would take brilliant swims to stop them from getting the crown

Craig Lord

Hosszu is favourite, Kim (though It would be off the chart stuff if she were to move on apace significantly from what she has already done given her age and career curve – and yes, those things are significant): I do see others who can go sub-4:30, inc Dirado

Craig Lord

Of course it would – its the Olympics, Wez 🙂 … but it would be terrible for swimming and the O Games if a swim with a clenbuterol positive several months back made it to the Olympic podium at all, in my view: totally wrong message (several layers, inc the msg that goes to the rogues who believe that can keep abusing young athletes and getting away with it)

Wez

Craig, you know my stance on doping of any kind. I do not accept it at all. I know that there have been sad cases, but even still, it is quite unfair to all the clean athletes.

aswimfan

China may have a solution for their doping woes:
They will just give retroactive bans to wang and the other clenbuterol swimmers, which will expire just in time for Rio.

Jose Peña

I can’t forget that Belmonte swam 4:31.21 in Barcelona the last day after having swum 200 medley, 400 free,800 free,1500 free and 200 fly (heats, semi and finals). So beforehand Hosszu is favourite but I think that the race won’t be as easy for Hosszu as everybody thinks…

John Lohn

I think Belmonte and Maya DiRado are more than capable of being sub-4:30 to give Hosszu a run.

Craig Lord

I agree with you and why John L suggests, Jose

Craig Lord

aswimfan, the review is in fina’s hands… they would have to give a ban of less than Ning’s, less than others have had, less than a year, for Wang and An to be in Rio. That would be deeply unfair in my view. China called this one very wrong – and they know it.

KeithM

It will be interesting to see what Overholt can do at Canadian Trials. She won bronze in Kazan on 4:32 at 17 years old. I think some still tend to overlook her.

Craig Lord

Indeed, KeithM.

Kim Simonsen

Still think you are neglecting the fact that the 400 IM is on day one in Rio – a rested Hosszu will have more energy for the final 100 than at the Worlds, I predict a time close to the WR 🙂 (She has already gone a sub 4:30 this spring)

1: Hosszu
2: Dirado
3: Miley/Belmonte

aswimfan

I tend to agree with Simonsen.
My prediction:
Hosszu for the win.
minor medals will be between Belmonte and Dirado.

Remember, Hosszu’s 400 IM final swim was after she had swum:
100 back prelims, 200 free prelims/semis/final, 200 IM prelims/semis/final, 200 fly prelims/semis and 400 IM prelims.

In Rio, 400 IM will be only her second swim after the prelims.

Anyone still remember what her second swim in Kazan looked like?

Yeah, she broke the “unbreakable for decades” 200 IM WR.

aswimfan

Remember, Hosszu’s 400 IM final swim IN KAZAN was after she had swum:

Craig Lord

And that would be her first Olympic medal in four games, at 27, Kim. That wouldn’t quite write a new line in swim history (the first and obvious one written so far is a dark one, of course).

aswimfan

Michelle Smith de Bruijn for the (cheating) wijn.

ThereaLuigi

A 22-second gap …. that’s an eternity … where is now the guy who on this website was comparing Ye Shiwen to Ledecky all the time? I am waiting to see the day when KL swims the 400 free in 4:20. Maybe when she is 40, or pregnant …

leif kim

Times reported:British doctor claims he doped 150 sports stars

Craig Lord

leif, the sports and athletes that doctor (as reported in the article linked to from this one) worked with are named and known: no aquatic sports. I will tell you this one time only: I have edited your comment – you cannot and must not accuse specific athletes of specific doping charges related to specific events when you have not a shed of evidence nor justification for raising the question. refrain or you will be removed from the site. Thank you.

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